Hello all. I have been doing yoga for about three years now, and I find people that know me ask me all the time questions about yoga and it benefits. I have read numerous books/magazines about yoga and its benefits, but because i have been only three years I am not sure if I am the person they should come too. I was wondering if taking a yoga certification course to become more knowledgable is the correct path to take since I always get these questions. All comments are welome. GOd Bless
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Sat, March 29, 2008 - 3:44 PMKnowledge and learning are always a good idea. I would just find a training program nearby that lets you take the first part without having to commit to the whole 200 hours up front. The whole training to be a teacher usually runs in the thousands of dollars.
Also, check out retreats/intensives - that might be an even better path if you are just looking for knowledge and not looking to become a teacher.
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 12:43 PMyoga certification is am american neurious. a group of people got together and decided to call themselfs the yoga allinace and invent a standard for certification. its a huge bussiness scam. theres lots and lots of money being thrown around for what. yoga has been around for thousands of years and the yoga alliance has been around less then twenty. itws as ridiculous as getting a certifaction as a muscian. ive seen no difference in safty with or with out pieces of paper saing the teacher is certifyed.; you learn how to be a good teacher by teaching.. no paper makes you more then you are. i took teacher trainings with richard freeman and jhon friend. they make no better then if i had taken workshopls but they cast a lot more. actually richard feels the same as me on this issue. no body but the american bussiness persona that has invaded yoga gives a shit about certification. thirty minutes after a person is in your class they are going to forget weather you are certified or not and just know if they are enjoying you or not. yoga is a direct experience not a bueracracy.
taking a certification course is not going to magically make your more or less of anything. it wioll only cost you. find a teach you love and practice practice practice. fuck the paper work -
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Tue, April 8, 2008 - 10:49 AMBizilly,
while i agree in the commercialization aspect of yoga, i also see the relevance of organisations such as the YA.
In the absence of it, there could be anyone teaching anything anything and claiming it to be yoga. Not all people in the west might be able to discern what is really yoga, what is a scam, or what is not a good practice of yoga.
Honestly, YA serves a purpose.
But as it goes with any standardization, it can get bureaucratic, cumbersome, restrictive and commercial. Thats the onus on the member of the organization to stay true to their vision.
I think the commercialization aspect has little to do with YA and more to do with the way economy is structured in the US. Everything is commodified and thats the only way people can think its too ingrained. For example, Tantra does not have any such alliance, do u think that its any less money making business??? I don't think so. Its equally commodified, branded, packaged and sold.
So I think that part has more to do with the nature of capitalist economy then with the creation of YA itself.
-
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Tue, April 8, 2008 - 12:59 PMI still think you should get the certification if you want to do so AND only if that is so.
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Wed, April 9, 2008 - 5:01 PMKalas, well put.
Frankly I wouldn't feel comfortable with a yoga teacher who hadn't gone through a formal teacher-training program because I've seen, and been the victim of, some "old school" yoga teachers who never had any real training in anatomy and body mechanics and give painful and sometimes debilitating physical adjustments to students.
Now, I've also seen people with their 200 hours that don't have a very good grasp on important aspects of yoga, such as interpretation of the sutras, or even basic principles of anatomy. So I agree with Bizilly that having a piece of paper does not make one a good teacher. Lots of teaching, caring, continuing to learn, continuing your own practice--that's what makes a good teacher. But there's a certain baseline of knowledge one has to start from.
There's a lot I don't like about YA, such as the fact that it took almost a year for them to process my paperwork after I sent it in and during that time I could not count any of my teaching towards an E-RYT rating because they had not yet processed me as an RYT. I also find the way they change the rules midstream (like now your continuing education workshops only count if led by a E-RYT) counter productive because it will just make more teachers not bother renewing.
However, YA is useful because teacher training curriculum is peer reviewed and has to meet certain standards, so in theory if someone has their 200-hour piece of paper they hopefully know enough not to cause permanent damage to a student's cervical spine.
Bizilly, I don't see your analogy of yoga teacher and musician as applying here. I see yoga teachers more like massage therapists and I would not trust a massage therapist who had not undergone some sort of training other than being the recipient of lots of massages themselves. In a physical yoga class, a yoga teacher can hurt students, especially if they do lots of hands-on adjusting. You're right, that in 30 minutes, probably less, many of us can tell the difference between good teachers and bad and I have taken (and never went back to) classes where the teacher doesn't know the first thing about body mechanics.
But back to Cole's question: yoga teacher training is usually really expensive and I would pursue it if you want to start teaching. But if you want to learn more about yoga, an intensive or a retreat is probably a better option. -
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Wed, April 9, 2008 - 5:12 PMActually, I have a better analogy--yoga teachers can be more like chiropractors in the way that some give aggressive physical adjustments. While I've never seen a chiropractor myself, I would stay far away from one who never went to school for it.
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Sat, April 12, 2008 - 7:17 AMso if a person has a good reputation as a teacher or massage therapist, they are practicing and passionate about there work you would discount them because they didnt pay to pass a test.
-
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Sat, April 12, 2008 - 7:45 AMBizilly,
No. -
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Sat, April 12, 2008 - 7:47 AMBefore u misunderstand me, let me clarify.
I would go to someone even if they did not have a certification with them - IF I know that this teacher is a good one (through intuition, reputation, lineage information, number of years in the practice etc etc).
Of course, I would go.
But that would not be true for everyone......Therefore, YA assists to create a standardization - reduction of risks of what could be out there which could be useful guidance for many people. :-))) -
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Sat, April 12, 2008 - 8:11 AMthis is such a modern american view piont. "there might be danger out there. we must prempt all possible threats with full scale burreucratic invasion." because you know, there are millions of us, but someone might pull a muscle. -
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Sat, April 12, 2008 - 2:18 PMBizilly,
There is no test for YA certification. Individual schools may have tests, but it's up to the school.
It's essentially designed so that all teacher training schools devote a minimum number of hours towards the various subjects such as anatomy, philosophy, etc. In theory, it's actually a benefit for teachers in training because it gives an outline of what the teacher training will encounter. In practice, I think it's got a long way to go and there are definitely lots of flaws, but I do look at it as somewhat of a consumer organization for prospective teachers looking for training.
You're totally right that what's taught in the majority of Western classes is asana and pranayama peppered with philosophy. The idea is that we give them a taste, and encourage their self study of philosophy through books and meditation. Right or wrong, that's the state of things right now.
And yes, depending on the class, I would be hesitant to go to a with no teacher training. If I did, I would be certain to tell them I absolutely did not want any physical adjustments.
In a workshop in my second year of practice a well-known and respected teacher gave me an aggressive physical adjustment in shoulder stand. She came up behind me, so I had no chance to even tell her I didn't want an adjustment. I felt tearing in my neck and was terrified. I had pain on and off for six months after that and have since then been diagnosed with arthritis in my neck (saw it for myself on the x-ray) and loss of curvature in my cervical spine. Now maybe my neck would have degraded on its own, but for six months I had frequent pain and was terrified to do shoulder stand for months afterward. I have heard from others who now have partial paralysis because a teacher jumped on their back or did something else extreme.
So the issues with teaching yoga can be far more serious than just pulling a muscle. I
The problem with this teacher is she was way old school and thought that her job was to "snap my neck into position" and did not bother reading anything ever written by a physical therapist or exercise scientist to know why this adjustment was a bad idea on so many levels. One thing that is supposed to happen with YA certification is that you are supposed to do continuing ed so that you stay current (though I'm not thrilled with how they keep changing the rules on it).
f yoga teachers didn't do physical adjustments in class, especially the more extreme ones I've seen and heard about, then it wouldn't be such a big issue. The problem is too many people do these without a clue as to what they are really doing to a person anatomically and only do them because that's what they saw their teacher do before. -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Mon, April 14, 2008 - 9:16 AMthat sucks. im sorry to hear that. it amazes me that a teacher who is well known and respected would be the sort of person who is so insensitive to her work as to never educate her self by reading or studying bio mechanics. who is she. it makes me wonder what she is offering that has gained her such respect and fame. but it sounds to me like she has well over 200 hours of study and if she still is unconcerned with safty i dont think a a certification will make a difference with this person.
ive been practicing both in the states and in india since 1987. yoga as an avenue to health has exploded since then and there are an astounding number of studios that have since opened doors to the public. most of the teachers out there today are certified because its hard to get work with out it. one the one hand there is a lot more informations accessible to us on alingment, breath and meditation and on the other lots of more generic forms taht are designed more for their excerise value then their educatrional. now most anybody who has done anything for over twenty years is goning to have opions. i admit right now that i am judgemental, im better at not taking it seriously but just cant seem to help my judgement. I find to many teachers are just not very good. there are so many times im in a class and the teacher is putting people into poses that they probalbly shouldnt be in, giving adjustments that dont inform, and spending more time talking about a philosophy they obviously have not spent enough time with then actual technique that people come to learn. i hear so many many teachers mention mula bundha and ujjyai pranayama as a reminder. they tell their students to engage in this way with out explaining how. seriously i dont know if ive ever heard a teacher outside of boulder colorado explain the what and how of these techniques. they, like all arts, are an endless subtle process and students really really deserve to know this. for me they are the central magic of the practice, yet to hear teachers these days you would think they were asking you to perform an obvious and simple task like closing a door. there is endless beauty hear that is outrageously over looked. there, thats my opion
my piont is the quality of teaching is about the same as ever, even though the art has been in the midst of a tremendous revolution in form. there is more infromation that has been made american. yoga is an american art now thanks to thousands of sincere yoga lovers translating the art into a form that is ours. i have no problem with any divorce from india. go to india today and find a good teacher, if he or she is not an expat your lucky. its a western art now, its transformed through the love of the yoga over the years of collective exploration. the YA is a part of that. unfortunately for me it represents the aspect of our culture that breeds fear and control, and ignores the possibility of self reliance, trust and sustainability. yoga is a physical endeavor and like every physical endeavor you risk injury. your particular injury and it severity is highly uncommon given the millions of people that paractice everyday. ive injured myself pretty seriously playing capoiera, which i played six days a week for almost a year, but i was 37 and wound up throwing out my hips in a way that is now recurring. im sure it was a precondition waiting to happen. bodys break down no control over the art will change that. the more you use your body the more you risk injury. so be careful, select the teachers you love and defend your health with a firm NO THANKS when ever nessesary. beacuse, and ill stop here, certification has not, in any way, made yoga safer or more informed, just more american. -
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Mon, April 14, 2008 - 11:44 AMbizilly - "im sure it was a precondition waiting to happen. bodys break down no control over the art will change that."
This may have been true in your case and I'm not in any way questioning that. However it's also true that repetitious movements or stresses can, over time, start to create problems. That's what a great deal of work injuries and chronic pain problems actually are, repetitive stress injuries. So, sometimes there are preconditions waiting to happen and sometimes the actual action is causative. I've run into quite a few yoga teachers who clearly have no understanding of basic physiology and allow or even recommend dangerous activities that will, over the long term, result in irreversible injuries and damage. Even things as basic as not extending one's knee past one's foot because of the undue stress it puts on the knee is outside of some (trained!) teacher's knowledge base. Of course, I've also run into some fabulously aware and well educated teachers who I trust implicitly too. Yoga teachers, they're people...with all that implies ;-) -
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Mon, April 14, 2008 - 12:23 PMword.
this is what i so often observe in classes. teachers allow bad habits not because they need certification, beacause these days they almost always are certified, but because it takes experience and development to begin to recognize habitual misalingment and how to adjust them.
good teachers, certified or not, are so valuable for the daily practioner...absolutely
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Mon, April 14, 2008 - 12:48 PMYou're right that YA has not made classes any safer, but it's a step towards credibility, which has opened the door for health insurance companies offering people benefits to take yoga classes.
The problem I see is not student's self reliance, but rather that instructors play chiropractor in class without even a fraction of the training that chiropractors get--not that I'm a big fan of chiropractors myself, but they do go through a lot of training and understandably so.
I personally have no problem with certifications because it is a baseline. There are some studios that will only hire you if you went through their teacher training program, even if you already went through a similar one and just moved to their city. The YA cert is more "national" in that it allows studios to have a baseline for hiring instructors from out of state (though of course they need to interview them and observe them teaching).
Why are you seeing a lot of teachers you don't find very good? Because the real money in yoga is not in teaching but in teacher training. Many people are desperate for a career change, which is understandable given how soul-crushing some corporate jobs can be, so one month and several thousand dollars later they become a yoga teacher from some programs. I think some programs accept teacher trainees a bit too easily and do not make them go through an apprentice program or pair them with a mentor, which is the best thing for a new teacher. But I understand too, yoga is something that the teacher trainers love, and they are trying to make a living at it.
Fifi mentioned a great example of how Western knowledge of anatomy has informed the teaching of yoga postures and made it better. Often, however, people get rigid in their belief that because they saw their teacher do a pose a certain way, that's the way it must be done forever. While there has been some negativity about Western influence on yoga, such as the rush to "master" a pose and the competitiveness, the depth of anatomical knowledge has been a benefit as I see it.
Why do some teachers resist that? Because they are hardcore in their beliefs that because their teacher told them there is only one correct way to do the pose, they refuse to modify it, or as some would say "dumb it down" because they believe that makes them more authentic than someone who has studied anatomy. It's crap really. What should be authentic is their embracing of the yamas and niyamas, not believing that it's their job to whip their students into the "correct" shape.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Thu, April 10, 2008 - 11:11 AMwhat is REAL YOGA, and how does YA discern it form SCAMS -
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Thu, April 10, 2008 - 12:13 PMSince I wasn't alive thousands of years ago when yoga first evolved I can't say what is "real" yoga.
Since I'm a woman who traditionally would have been barred from practicing in India, I'm not practicing "real" yoga.
Since I'm an outsider, a Westerner, and not a member of the Brahman caste, I would not have been permitted to study yoga, so if we want to talk about truly authentic yoga, then I'm not honoring that tradition as well.
According to Bikram, in his new book, only he is teaching "real" yoga and everyone else, including Iyengar and Jois, are scams.
How do you know if it's "real" yoga? Ask the students what they got out of the session. -
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Thu, April 10, 2008 - 12:34 PMwell, if we get into the meanings of words, then anything and everything can be questioned.
On one sense, anyway, what is real?? Whatever we make of it is real. And anyway it keeps changing.
But coming back to the point, taking a more practical approach, when I say real yoga, I mean Yoga that adheres to some of the ancient texts that have been written some thousands of years ago (Of course, one can always argue that how do we know what is the real translation? This argument can go on without any real answers)
The 2 most authentic texts for yoga are the Hatha Yoga Pradapika and Patanjali's Yoga Sutras (additionally the Shiva Samhita and Gheranda Samhita also mention many of the practices). Is the yoga that is being taught close to what has been mentioned in this text? If not, then you can still teach, but please call it something else. Like Margot Anand calls her version of tantra as "Skydancing Tantra" or Bodhi Avinasha calls it "Ipsalu Tantra" (which are both a mixture of practices and thoughts collected from here and there).
Now SCAM is perhaps a strong word I used. I mean yoga that is not confirming to the 2 texts I mentioned. How does one standardize a vast body of knowledge like yoga into something coherent, deliverable and consistent?
Not everyone is going to read all these texts to decide whether a teacher is teaching something that is Yoga per the Indian tradition or not.
Of course, once you attend a class, you know whether you like a teacher or not. You still do not know where the knowledge that the teacher is imparting is coming from and what is the authenticity of it? Just 'feeling good', according to me is not a good parameter to decide the capabilities of the teacher. (finally of course, the teacher may know a lot but may suck at teaching. so this is an additional factor).
Absence of something like YA is something akin to a free market economy, where everyone has to watch out for himself/herself. There are arguments both ways.
personally, i prefer an organization that facilitates some standardization of a vast body of knowledge like yoga in a culture which is alien to it. and personally, when i am going for a class, i look up the bio of the teacher to see he/she has studied from, what lineage is the teacher's teacher coming from. Since I am aware of the various yogic lineages and teachers in India, I wouldnt care if the teacher is not a IYT because I know the school that he/she has learnt from. Not everyone has this knowledge and sources to know.
I absolutely refrain from going to teachers who do not mention their source of knowledge. I mean, anyone can read the 100s of books out there in the market, make a collection of it and start teaching.
-
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Thu, April 10, 2008 - 1:36 PMWhile I think these are valuable texts to provide context for what we do, there are only 3 Sutras that even refer to asana, and the Pradipika says things like "make sure to clean your practice space with fresh cow dung." Now, I've been in Bikram studios that *smell* like they've been wiped with fresh cow dung, but I don't think anyone in the US is actually adhering to that practice, so does that mean we're all not doing "real" yoga? And are you taking into account that many of the asanas practiced today have their roots in British calisthenics, not some ancient text? Or when you say "real" yoga, are you talking about an approach that includes more than asana, pranayama, and meditation? -
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Fri, April 11, 2008 - 5:59 AMdahling, NONE of us can practice "real" yoga. Very very few can.
The times have changed radically since the time these texts were written. therefore many of the pre-reqs are simply not possible unless most people change their lifestyle radically. Now that is just not possible is it, in the prevailing world order? Does that mean that we should not practice yoga at all? I dont think so. we can only relatively practice "real" yoga, which is possible in the current times. Within that, there is no black and white answer and its a spectrum of how close to the earlier texts on one end and how far on the other end.
That is to say i consider it to be relatively "real" when it includes the 8 legs of patanjali (which are based on these texts) accompanied by mantras and readings from some scriptures such as the gita (for cultivating a perspective and to give the learners a view into this tradition and system which generated the system of yoga. the mindset, the approach, the view towards life, humanity and the cosmos.
I do not know much about Bikram Yoga, but as far as what i know, the authenticity of it is a little doubtful. i have never heard of such a form of yoga in india before. (that does not mean that in some part of india it does not exist but simply that knowledge and reading of yoga has not led me to find the bikram style anywhere in india). that doesn't mean that its wrong or that people should not go for it. its everyone's choice, but make an educated choice.
i think thats where YA also comes into picture.
(It sounds like i am becoming a proponent of YA. not the case. i have no vested interests. just expressing that organisatins like YA have a certain purpose that i appreciate. but it also comes with its disadvantages)
I would love to know which translation u r reading (when u said "there are only 3 sutras that even refer to asana....")
-
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Fri, April 11, 2008 - 11:46 AMI have Iyengar's and Shearer's translations. A friend in my teacher training actually took the time to write out each of the sutras from 5 different translations, including Iyengar, Desikachar, Feurstein, Satchidananda, and Houston. It is very interesting to see the different translations right up against each other.
Oh, and I misspoke--there are 4 that refer to asana: 2.29, 2.46, 2.47, 2.48
-
-
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Sat, April 12, 2008 - 7:55 AMit seems you feel authentic yoga is comprised of the tradtions of ancient india. but the vast majority of people practicing yoga in america are practicing yoga asana with some simple pranayama. teachers have habits of making mention of philisophical notions but most people are practicing asana and the is what the YA is geared toward, asana practice. its primary boost is that its certification is creating a safer classroom environment. if you go standardizing philosphical view you are a bonified fundementalist organization, and like all fundementalist organizations should be avoided. we are talking about asana practice here.
ive read the books you site and having done so over many years has not made me a safer intructor. they were never intended to. the sutra is describing a very subtle process that is not at all reliant on asana. the pradapika also is limited in its describtion of asana practice. so these books dont really apply to the vast majoity of yoga in america and in NO way make you a safer teacher, which is what the issue is here. besides what is useful in these texts is not taught in a 200 hour class, it takes thousands of hours of personal reflection for most people to begin to get at what is essential in them.
lets be honest YA does not police classes as an agent of quality control. they only make you pay to take the test they have standardized..that is it. there is nothing about tradition or lineage gaurnteed so i think you may be confused about that. they essential only gaurntee that the instructor has paid the money, taken the course and remembered enough to pass a test.
i broke my hip and finger in a car accident a couple of years ago. some of the treatment i got was miraculous and im very very grateful to western medicine for that, but most of it was terrible. in fact my finger is still fucked up. this dialouge is reminding me of that experience. doctors are not the smartest people out there they are just the ones who have stayed in school the longest.
in realizing how much time im wasting on the internet i realize i need a job or a girlfriend or both. i think ill end now and do something useful
bye bye
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 1:45 PMYou must get the questions because you answer them well or because you are constantly going to or talkig about your yoga experiences.
A yoga certification course wil help you becoem more knowledgeable, definitely, and it will also certify you to be a yoga instructor.
Do you wish to eb a yoga teacher? Your writing did not seem to indicate that.
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 3:09 PMI am currently 3/4 of the way through a yoga teacher training that meets the YA certification requirements. For me it is less about the certificate and more about the experience. The training is through my home studio, which I adore, and instead of being crammed into a 4-6 month period it is actually spread out over 2 years, one 3-day weekend per month (May-August off). I love this approach as it gives much more time to digest and practice the concepts we are learning as well as to get deep into our own practice and to develop a community of learners. It's been a wonderful experience and I highly recommend something like it, whether or not you ever plan to teach or want/need a certification.
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Fri, April 4, 2008 - 3:16 PMhi there,
i took an intensive yoga teaching training 1 year ago. frankly, it was more of a nice social experience and a fun thing to do than learning about yoga. i don't regret it due to these very reasons. i had a good time. but no, i didn't learn much. i am reading a lot, studying with good teachers now, and learning as i am teaching. i started teaching a class 2 months ago, which by the way i would not be able to do without the piece of paper... most places do want to see a certificate. it does not mean anything really, but it is a beauracratic thing that is hard to avoid.
so if you want to teach - good idea to go through a training.
for knowledge - not a good idea. like other people said, emmersions, workshops and just classes are better. anusara approach i think is great for explaining things.
good luck! -
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Mon, April 7, 2008 - 2:24 PMI agree with the general consensus here that a certification is just really a piece of paper & has no intrinsic value of it's own. It's just a simple trueism to say that the quality of a the teacher depends on what they know & how they teach not there certification.
That said, not all yoga teacher trainings are equal. There are still a few programs out there that expect you to meet some entry requirements so they can focus on teaching you more about how to teach than something you'd find in an "intensive" yoga workshop.
-
-
Re: Yoga Certification Should I ??
Sat, May 31, 2008 - 8:40 PMwow what a glop of stuff this thread is! myomy. well I am a trained journalist as well as a certified yoga instructor. I can tell you that the journalism training I received was just a starting point. I learned most of what I know about writing, reporting and journalism while doing it. It's the same for yoga I believe. I am just beginning my journey. I have a lot to learn. However, as a certified teacher and a member of local studio, I have learned enough to begin others on their own yoga journeys. I know the proper positions for the hands, the knees, the feet. I know how to do the three-part breath pretty well I think. I know, I believe, the proper internal setting one should have while doing these asanas. What else do I need to do? I, as a teacher, am setting others on their yoga journey. Some will take to it, some won't. Some will be inspired to do more, learn more, perhaps even teach themselves. What else do I, as a teacher, need to do?
